Kyra discusses the challenges that come with being the child of an immigrant in the U.S., always pushed to doing her best and be constantly productive. We discuss the critical need for Black and Brown people to find ways to just rest and her journey to accepting that who she is in fact enough.
In fact, Kyra Assibey-Bonsu is enough. She works on all things that highlight the lives and stories of underrepresented communities by advocating for those who do not have a voice or a platform. She has worked on projects that support marginalized communities across the globe, from students under the caste system in Bihar, India to Syrian refugees' relocation in Argentina. She is an urbanist and is passionate about immigration and migration justice, and produces her own podcast, No Country for Moving, where she discusses socio-cultural issues of immigrants.
She was also a founding board member of BlackSpace and is a current Laundromat Project Create Change Fellow.
Kyra discusses the challenges that come with being the child of an immigrant in the U.S., always pushed to doing her best and be constantly productive. We discuss the critical need for Black and Brown people to find ways to just rest and her journey to accepting that who she is in fact enough.
In fact, Kyra Assibey-Bonsu is enough. She works on all things that highlight the lives and stories of underrepresented communities by advocating for those who do not have a voice or a platform. She has worked on projects that support marginalized communities across the globe, from students under the caste system in Bihar, India to Syrian refugees' relocation in Argentina. She is an urbanist and is passionate about immigration and migration justice, and produces her own podcast, No Country for Moving, where she discusses socio-cultural issues of immigrants.
She was also a founding board member of BlackSpace and is a current Laundromat Project Create Change Fellow.
They would say like if you're struggling with something, why don't we work on that as opposed to play, which I think that's just creates children who are always working and don't know how to rest and to like rejuvenate, because I feel like I'm always going and I struggle to sometimes just take time to rest, and to do other things that aren't about being productive.
DB Crema:This is United States of race, personal stories of how our earliest memories determine a lifetime of relationships. I'm your host DB crema. Today, we're joined by Kira Asobi bond zoo, who works on all things that highlight the lives and stories of underrepresented communities, thus advocating for those who do not have a voice or a platform. She has worked on projects that support marginalized communities across the globe, from students under the caste system in Bihar, India, to Syrian refugees relocation in Argentina. She's an urbanist and is passionate about immigration and migration justice, so much so she has her own podcast called No Country for moving check it out, where she discusses socio cultural issues of immigrants. And personally as the child of immigrants, my conversation with Kira really resonated with me because so many of us first generation Americans have a shared experience of growing up with parents who are not assimilated to the American parenting system. It often creates in us, all of us this constant feeling like we're never doing enough. And as Kira talks about, it makes it hard for us to know how to press pause on the always producing button. It makes it hard to just rest. Well, I treated myself to a spa day recently, you see I'm going back to a full time job and I wanted to enjoy some dedicated relaxed time before it starts. So when I checked in for my appointment, I was ready to unplug, and the spa attendant gave me a tour of the facilities. And in the pool area, she pointed to a collage of life sized pictures on a wall, all 50s era smiling and happy bathing beauties. The people in these photos were living their best life. They were sunny and handsome and joyful and slim. And as she swept her hand past the mural, the attendant smiled and said to me, as you try to relax, let these photos remind you of a simpler time. Well, immediately my brain switched back on simpler times. simpler times for some maybe you see, the photos were full of white people, the people having fun in the photos, the only people having fun, were white, as if people of other races and ethnicities of that era did not frolic and cavort in the sun, or at the beach, or at the pool. And the implied message was that if you just switch off your thoughts of all your worries of the world, you too can be relaxed and happy. And to be clear, it was a well intended message. And the attendant was just trying to be welcoming and do her job. But I assume it never even occurred to this international hotel chain operating in the southern city, that the mural might be fundamentally lacking. I mean, did they not notice it was all whites? And did it not occur to them that not only white people treat themselves to spa days? I mean, it clearly did not occur to them that there was an issue with representation. representation matters. But, and I focus here for a moment. It's also a stark reminder that not everyone has the pleasure of just switching off and forgetting about all their woes. During the same era that these photos were taken, among other things, black boys were being publicly lynched, for writing kind notes to white girls, they were sweet on. And slave like conditions continued in the form of sharecropping, on the plantations in the American South, in the fields outside the very city I was standing in. So no, not everyone can remove their worries, hanging them up in the closet for the time being like a robe one wears for the day at the spa. For some, the very fact that there is no representation in this mural is a stark reminder that these woes follow them everywhere. Some because of their skin color, carry the burden of always acting properly and always being the best as Kyra and I discussed and never being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I guess that brings me back to the importance of these conversations, taking the time to hear and understand people's experiences both for their joys and their woes, that can make us all a bit better at practicing empathy, and making space and giving grace to our fellow humans, who must carry many of their woes on their very skin. So it is my hope that better understanding people's very personal experiences and life realities can be the very thing that creates a world where everyone can frolic in the sun, anywhere at any time, without exception, without worry. So tell me, when did you first become aware of race?
Kyra:My very first experience would be when I went entering kindergarten, I was a semester late, my my grandmother had come from Ghana, to take care of me as she does with all of her grandchildren. And she was staying with at my family's house, and she was adamant that I was fluent in tree. She was like this is, you know, the language of your culture, it's very important that you are fluent. And so she was there kind of, you know, protecting that culture and heritage. And when I entered, my first day of kindergarten, was like a whole pomp and circumstance because I was late, not late, technically, just starting later than others. And I was already older. I remember, my mom and sister driving me there, she walks me down this very long corridor, we pass by these like really Montessori like jungle gyms and left is the after school daycare center, which would become my home with my home. And there's also all these other kids running around. And then we pass through these two double doors that are carpeted. And my sister like is holding it holding my hand the entire time I walk in to the class with my Barbie pail lunchbox, and I put it away and I like slowly make my way to my teachers like circle where all the kids are sitting around. And I didn't want to sit by myself. So I sat in her lap. And I knew that the top of the teacher's lap on the teacher's lap. Yeah, I saw the teacher's lap, I was a teacher. So I sat on the teacher's lap. And I knew that the top of my like little puff was hitting like the bottom of her chin. And I was like a little self conscious about everything. I was self conscious about my hair. And I noticed I look different from everybody else. And and I also knew that they were speaking in a language that I grasped, but I like really couldn't vocalize. So it was like I was like, Oh, I know this language. I don't really speak it commonly my house, my hair looks different than everyone else I can like, feel the pink lotion like emanating off of me, like just just the gradual realization of how different I was to my classmates. And even when I liked or like had little crushes in kindergarten, and I would compare myself to the other like little girls like one of my inner being one of my good friends. She had like, Lily, white hair and very blue eyes. And I remember watching or coming up upon her, like hanging out with the boy I liked. And he also had like very prina blue eyes and like brown hair, and I was like there's a match made in heaven. And like they look perfect, like for your chi was like, Oh, he's mine. But I like realizing like they like they look the same. And I look very different. And so maybe the same as the way it's supposed to be. You know, like, and I I like reiterated that with my Barbies. I separated my Barbies in between, like the white Barbies in the black Barbies and the blackberries didn't live in as nice as a home as the white Barbies. They lived in a lesser home, which was also disturbing. I realized as I got older how weird Are you did that at home? I did that at home. Oh, wow. I remember like first I had them all like integrated and then I was like I was like actually this is not how this is not the world I see them in like I see them like they have a different space and so I had them in and like the apartments on the side. And by batteries had these very like lino this apart like this, almost like townhouse little mansion, which is really made up of like shelves. And so they're all these like little vignettes. For me, I was like, oh, like clearly I perceive that blackness means that you have less money. Being black means that you are not as desirable or you don't really fit because you look different. That you are late that you are because I was like Tinder and also like late and you start late, but then there was like the whole language aspect. So there was all these predisposed belief systems that I was creating for myself, without even having conversation with my parents. Like I didn't vocalize any of this. I'm okay. And and I'm sure my sister and parents picked up on some things, but a lot of that was in private, I didn't tell them that these people were very busy lives. So like, there was just like, she's healthy. She's doing well, like, we're gonna keep going, you know, like, it's fine. Like, let's keep it going. So
DB Crema:you're right. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Your parents were like, Okay, we're doing we're doing well enough. keeping her alive. Um, do you remember what you might have been picking up from them and where you were and or where you were picking up these associations based on race and color. Like from where you're picking it up, I
Kyra:knew that there was an issue with the fact that I wasn't speaking English, as well as all the other kids that I and so I was actually, as opposed to moving up with my class. They kept me back for like, a semester. And I was really upset about it. Because I was in the, in the meeting with my mom and my teacher walking around as they were talking. And they're like, she's doing great. It's just like, she needs to be to a higher level. So already, I'm like, okay, that's one thing. To this day, I tell my mom and mom and dad that I'm really my mom. And she's like, this was not a big deal. A lot of kids are in that space. You just like, This is what they said. And like we did what was necessary, and you ended up in the exact same place, though, that was you know, what happened? And then
DB Crema:but there was a social separator. So social separation, really intense with it. Oh, yeah,
Kyra:social Bration. And then another aspect was the fact that my parents were, you know, they were doing like, well enough, but we went to I went to private school my entire life. So there were definitely most of the kids are upper middle class and or if not, upper class, or they're coming from money. And so I kept internalizing that, like, I am poor. I like clearly not as smart as everyone else, because I'm not in the same class. And then I'm not like seen as as pretty enough. And it was, it was from the outside looking in, no one would have picked up on that again. Mm hmm. But I didn't feel it on a day to day basis. And and you don't forget those feelings, like I still struggle with that enough factor that like, oh, is my apartment cute enough? Is my is my job good enough? Is what I'm doing enough is all these other aspects of me at the place of all the people around me? And so that was kind of shitty.
DB Crema:Yeah, to have it submit. I mean, I get it. I think that resonates a lot with me, but to have it submit so or at such an early ages. And it's interesting to me as well that, you know, you're looking at this boy and girl, and you saw them being looking a lot more similar. And so you almost it was like a self segregation or self marginalization where you're like, Well, I, I wouldn't be the one that would be attractive to this boy, because I don't look like that. Like, were you getting that from anyone else? No,
Kyra:but I do remember that. Although I was feeling lesser, they were also like, Oh, she is smart. And like she's like, very like capable and very intelligent. I would also say that, in my own house. Like when I there were things that I struggled with, my parents would just be there to like continually like support. Like when I did end up going to all girls school, my writing wasn't up to par. So I got a tutor, I had so much shame about this tutor. And before that I had a math tutor too. And I had so much shame about it. Even though these tutors were reference references from my friends, who also had them who were white, were like, Oh, we're struggling. They're like, we're struggling. My parents, like she needs a little help. I was like, great. Now there's another strike against me. And I do think that it is like a representation of how our society sees the black and brown community, like the hustle to like, get into like the rat race to be at the same level as a white person is is like, almost so unimaginable for many that you're like, When will I ever be at the same place? When will I ever be equal?
DB Crema:And so this need to like to already exhibit perfection.
Kyra:Oh, yeah. I will say that came for my parents, though. The perfection thing. And I think that's like an immigrant parent thing. They're like, do your best. Do your absolute best. And that's all we ask. And if you're not doing your best, then that's a problem. Because your education is not cheap. They're like we we put you here for opportunities that we feel that you will make you a more successful person. So we didn't come for you to not do your best.
DB Crema:Right? But there's this like, imply it's not even that they're implying it but you take the burden on yourself of of this idea that doing your best also has to be the best.
Kyra:Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It was like a or no a and if there was something less it was a question. Yeah, they're like cool. You can you can hang out with your friends but like, I like how are your grades and all your other classes? Like, and they wouldn't keep me from seeing my friends altogether. But they would say like, if you're struggling with something, like why don't we work on that as opposed to play, which I think that's just creates children who are always working and don't know how to rest and to like, rejuvenate. Because I feel like I'm always going, and I struggle to sometimes just take time to rest and delay and to do other things that aren't about being productive.
DB Crema:Wow. You're speaking my truth?
Kyra:Yeah. No, it's, it's it's so important to rest in I feel exhausted. And I realized, it's because I feel shame if I haven't done X amount.
DB Crema:And do you think that that's because of, you know, kind of this immigrant mentality? Or do you think that's because of being black in America?
Kyra:I think it's both or both? I think it's both. I think for being black in America, you're as I said, you're always not enough. And then the immigrant mentality is you need to be more than enough. So you get hit with it twice. And that is exhausting. I think it's it's, it's so exhausting.
DB Crema:What I hear you saying is that this kind of deeply ingrained sense of I'm, am I enough? Or I'm not enough? Is both about race as and culture?
Kyra:Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I realized that when I second guess, and third gas, and fourth guess myself, that my friend who is a black female, she'll second guess herself. But she's not going she's not going to the third and the fourth.
DB Crema:Yeah. So So what did you get at home? Like what how did your family talk about race? How did they talk about identity?
Kyra:Race? I just feel like for Africans, because Africans in Africa and I will say most importantly, like are most of civically like West Africans are Ghanians they're coming from a place in which they were the majority you know blackness in, in that concept was in something where they saw as lesser than, although low nihilism did create hierarchies in which they were always seen as lesser than but for themselves. Like that wasn't an issue. I think at home mine. It was very important that my parents for them like a Ghanaian food, I respected my elders, I tried my best and did my best. And also was not like a black American. They call me the text and jokingly kind of like in a pejorative way, it was like this is messed up. So identity around Ghanaian Ness was really important. as like, a Ghanaian American child who was the only Ghanaian in her like schools, typically always, that was harder, because I spent so much time at school. So a lot of that identity. I feel like my like blackness, I have to find through like group contacts, like I did, like gospel choir in high school, which is where a lot of the black women because it was all girl school, were a part of and so we talked about things like hair and, and boys and dating, and also their stuff and like what was happening in our day to day. So a lot of that context came from came from school, which is weird, because my school is primarily white. Right? So Right. Yeah. And you're
DB Crema:saying that's that was where your cultural context of being a black American came from, which, like you is, you're living in like two different worlds right at home your Ghanaian it's all about Ghana, which anyone from on the outside might assume like Oh, of course, it's black. But you're saying it's, it doesn't center around blackness, per se, because everybody's Black In Ghana for the most part. And then outside the home in school. It was more this focus on being a black American in a sea of whiteness.
Kyra:Oh, yeah, absolutely. I remember going to Ghana, and really being immersed in just all the people in the culture and the food and feeling how wonderful it was. But also that everyone knew everyone's business in Ghana. I want to have these previous Bo's beliefs of like what I was and what I was doing. They knew I was an American, they knew who my parents were, before I opened my mouth. I didn't like the fact that I was already put into a box. And that I felt like I was constantly trying to define myself as this person within Ghana, from a guy named family. But under the structure of like, I am also like something else like you're right, your whole identity is predetermined, and I knew that from early age and I didn't like that I liked having to rebuild and create my own story, but it is a lot of work.
DB Crema:Hmm. I'm curious particularly because you know, you're you come from a Ghanaian household. Do you ever talk to your family about black America? Oh, absolutely. Totally. And what it means for your family, what it means for you and how that's different from them as a Ghanaian
Kyra:completely different, the whole conversation in my family is that black Americans are different from African, because they have been given more opportunities, then Africans to be successful, and to rise to the top. And a lot of the the common argument or refrain is, if I had as many opportunities, I'd be twice as far and I wouldn't have fought or complain as much as black Americans have. And I've had this conversation with Nigerian friends and Kenyan, like, our parents also, same day, like you've been given all the opportunities, and we have them we be doing three times as much. And so in reference to, you know, black Americans to African Americans, it's it's often that adage. And it's
DB Crema:a very conservative view,
Kyra:it's a very, it's a very black and white view and not understand the context of like how racism plays a part in every culture but in particularly here it's very it's just very different so it's
DB Crema:how do you grapple with it? How do you sorry not grapple? How do you confront that or converse about it with your oil in
Kyra:the beginning, I just I just I was quiet. I like there were so many things I argued with my parents about I was like, I am not going here with you have late I been more vocal, I said that I understand where you're coming from. But what you're not realizing his how is the effect of racism in this type of racism, and growing up amongst it, not to say that you didn't grow up amongst like structures that subjugated you, but it's very different to be torn from your home, and then sold, and then to like, rebuild a culture and society. And under an umbrella that kiss consistently seen you as less. There was already societies and cultures built in Africa and civilizations. But it's very different when you are brought and stolen. And, and then you have to like, navigate a structure that is honestly just not for you. And rebuild and then confront it and explain like this is racism. And this is how I feel and have people tell you, it's not like, Yeah, and so I've had, I've been more vocal now. And most like, my mom will often say to me, she's like, I hope you're not feeling downtrodden about this. Because I want you to know, like, you can do what you need to do. It is possible. Yeah, of course, it's possible, not saying it's not possible. It's just very hard. It is a lot harder. Just yeah. It's harder for black people.
DB Crema:Do they? Do you think your parents realize that you're a black American? And that you're seen as a black American? Oh, yeah,
Kyra:they get it. That's what they call me the Texan. They're like, Oh, the Texan tie was the tech.
DB Crema:Parents who call your family calls you?
Kyra:Yeah, isn't that wild? My dad's like, Well, you're the Texan. Mm hmm.
DB Crema:Yeah, I'm a first generation American as well. And for me, it's like anyone else who I can connect on. I mean, obviously, we didn't grow up together or in the same space. But there's this kind of common and shared experience of growing up as American kids, but also having these immigrant parents and trying to navigate and translate between the two, which was always a constant process. It was different. Yeah, good or bad.
Kyra:It was just different. Yeah. And at the time, I thought it was bad now I just think it's like a superpower. You know, being able to translate what people expect. And also what is allowed and what's not allowed. I feel like it's an it to be a bit of a cultural chameleon myself, like being the only ease or one of the fuse is a concept that I took with me throughout my adult life, until I realized how separatists that feels often and alienating and how you're always hunting for people to understand you. And then when you're in those groups, you realize that you are still distinctive in your own way as well. Like there's always something right.
DB Crema:Right. But it sounds like you know, this always there's always being in this environment where you're the only it sounds like you are the one almost self imposing it. Why why is that?
Kyra:Isn't it wild? I like always self imposed if I lived in Spain and Argentina, I found I did found like networks of like a black community in both spaces. But I almost feel that I internalized the fact that like I had more power as an only as a as opposed to in a large group. I was thinking a lot about this the other day is like I think that it gave me a power of or in my mind, I was thinking a uniqueness or some sort of starpower like there's less competition.
DB Crema:So why the focus on immigrants, or the diaspora experience in your own podcast,
Kyra:because I was treated and have always been treated as an immigrant, my 20s were spent living in other countries, and everyone always saw me as one. So it really resonated with me. Because I, I took in a lot of what my parents dealt with through osmosis, and also just through what they directly tell me about their own immigrant experience. And so that's an aspect I want to explore more deeply, because it's just different. You know, and I have these conversations with my parents, because they don't get that, you know, someone doesn't want to have a child. They don't get that. You know, that I, you know, that I'm single and happy with it. So, yeah.
DB Crema:Yeah, that's it is a whole experience in and of itself unique from any other group of children in this country. The first one? Oh, yeah. Every single person I talked to who's and who has immigrant parents? All like, same experience, same different stories, same experience. Yeah, doesn't matter where doesn't matter. race doesn't matter. Countries a word,
Kyra:I would agree, I would definitely agree. I feel like it's so good to share what you're going through. Because you realize a lot of people relate right? To be clear, I'm over the whole enough thing. I'm so done with being though not enough and enough crap. I try every day to not deal with that. And like, reflect on my week as opposed to cramming it. With every minute of every hour of doing something, it's just not sustainable. And also reminding myself to like to treat yourself enjoy, like the finer things, whether that's like a piece of cake, or a nice walk. When it's really nice out in the middle of the day. Just finding little things or little gifts that will I can cherish and I can enjoy and give me time to just breathe. Not think not do just just be
DB Crema:thanks for listening to United States of rates. This podcast was produced by me. dB crema. We'd love to hear from you. Send us a one minute Voice Memo with any reactions, questions or stories you'd like to share. You can use the app on your phone to record the voice memo and email it to United States of race@gmail.com. That's United States of race@gmail.com. It might even be included in an upcoming episode. And be sure to hit follow or subscribe on whichever podcast platform you're listening. That way you won't miss a single moment. Until next time