Akeem gets conflicting input about his race when he has to pick a box to check on the state aptitude test, triggering decades of questioning whether he wants to be in the box people put him in.
Akeem gets conflicting input about his race when he has to pick a box to check on the state aptitude test, triggering decades of questioning whether he wants to be in the box people put him in.
I think the hard part is realizing that my kids are going to be even more American than me. Like when I was a kid, we went to Iraq twice. And I have these fond memories of these people who didn't speak English giving me more kisses that I knew were possible, like, Okay, this is what I am. And this is the food that we eat at home. And this is the music that we listen to. And my kids are going to be like, we went to Palm Springs.
DB Crema:This is United States of Race, personal stories of how our earliest memories determine a lifetime of relationships. I'm your host, DB Crema. So when did you become aware of race?
Akeem:Well, I don't know. But when I was in fourth grade, we had to do the Illinois State academic testing, you know, let you do that, like, I don't know, every other grade. And that was the first time I had to put down on a form like what race right you. And I raised my hand. So I went to, I grew up in a very, what they would consider a diverse town, outside of Chicago. So it wasn't like everyone was white, or something like that. But it was very much black and white. So it was like 40% Black, 40% White, and it's like 10 to 20% of everything else. And I remember raising my hand and saying, I don't know what to put, right. Like, seriously, and my teacher looks at me and he says, You're sure not white. Like, that was my...He's like, I don't know what you are either. But you're not white. Right? And who knows? Was he racist? Or was he you know, just an asshole? It sounds like he was just an asshole. From what I remember, he was just an asshole. Because you don't really say that to a fourth grader or third grader. And if he had some, you know, self awareness, he just be like, I don't know, this is interesting question. Let's turn this into a lesson and how we can appreciate the fact that there's more than just black and white in the world. But not like not, you're just not white dude. Figure it out. Sucks to be you.
DB Crema:You're on your own.
Akeem:Yeah. So I was like, Well, I was like, I guess I'm black. Right? So I was black to the state of Illinois until like, the next time we need to take a test two years later. So I remember the kid sitting next to me was black. And I was like, would you put and he's like, I put black and he was clearly black. You know? Like, there was no like, Oh, you know, where the other kids who don't literally look like anyone put. He was like, I put black and I was like, Well, I'm not white. And I'm not Pacific Islander. So I was black. And I remember going home and talking to my mom about it. And I was like, Hey, Mom, this happened. And she's like, Ha, Ha ha ha ha. My mom has a very strange relationship with race. And so she's like, we're white. And I was like, "Oh, no one told me." And I'm like, My teacher said that I'm not. And I don't really feel like that's accurate. I think that after that point in time, and I didn't put you know, I just put white after that, as my mom was like, yeah, we're white.
DB Crema:Talk to me about being white. So why were you guys white? Why weren't you considered something else like
Akeem:So I think that by law, Arabs are still considered Caucasian. So like on a census, I'm still considered Caucasian. Even though this was like the first year that I could put something separate, you can write in, I actually got into a big fight with my wife about this, right? Because my wife filled out the census without talking to me, and I actually was became very, like, researching this. And this is something that I had some interest in is to say, this was the first year that they had a space to be like, well, if you don't fit into any of these other categories, tell us what you are. And there was actually a pretty reasonable size push in some of the Arabic communities to say no, we need to be counted and put Arab or put you know, Iraqi or put something in that spot so that we can have an idea of how many Arabs are in this country. And we don't fit into the the the Caucasian box. But this is the first time and so yeah, technically by law, I'm Caucasian. Growing up that was also it was literally like black and white. And you I don't want to say you chose sides, but you like fit into sort of one situation or the other, like my brother's two, three years older than me. And he totally was more white culturally than I was, like, from the music he listened to to the girls that he dated to everything, he liked white stuff. He dated, exclusively white women and I dated exclusively, not white women. He listened to The Smiths and The Cure, and I listened to hip hop, and I have no idea why, we're three years apart. And then when I went to college, I then appreciated, I'm like, Oh, you can like both? You don't have to choose one. Because there's more than just two. Right?
DB Crema:Turns out, you can like both flavors.
Akeem:Exactly. Usually out there. Like there's another flavor out there you never even heard of. And when I got to college, is when I really met a group of people who also didn't fit in any categories. And that was the first time where I was like, oh, there are other people who are in this group. And then that sort of became my group was the, like the other you fill in the blank, right? So everyone was kind of different. But we all filled in the blank a little bit differently.
DB Crema:What did it feel like when you say you weren't, you weren't... it was made clear to you that you weren't white and you weren't treated as such? Like, what was your experience?
Akeem:I mean, it never resonated with me that I was white because I didn't feel culturally or that I looked white, or that I was treated white. And I didn't even know what that meant. But I just knew that I was different. I was not what the majority was. And, you know, that whole idea of I don't fit in was a pervasive part of my childhood. You know, I knew that I was different. I knew that I when I went home, the food was different. And the smells were different. And, you know, the way we treated our dog was different. And there's a few times I remember growing up, were just the feeling of saying that you're different, and that you're not what we are, was pointed out to me, I remember, I remember being in grammar school as well. And we had to do like a family tree. And I did a family tree, and we had to put together a presentation. And the teacher was like, well, you, you forgot to put an oil rig on your presentation. And I was like, I don't think my family has anything to do with oil. And she's like, oh, but everyone there has something to do with oils, you should put an oil rig on your presentation and drew... like put an oil rig, like prominently in the middle of my presentation about being from Iraq. And these teachers didn't realize the power that they had to categorize you when you were in third grade. And that's horrible. And like, yeah, you think that fucking guy who told me I don't know what the fuck you are, but you're not white was not biased about how he treated me in class. You know, there's no way. But at the same time, I don't really want to think about that and say, oh, what could have happened? Or what could I have been, if I was white? Because I hate that. And I don't want to think about it like that. Like, if I was white, could I, would I've been in the AP classes? Would I have gone to a better college? Would I have gotten a better letter of recommendation? Would a teacher have taken more interest in me? What werethe possibilities if I had been treated equally? And I don't want to think about that. I don't want to think that I didn't live up to any potential that I had, or that these people had that much control over me. Like, yeah, that guy was a teacher, I was an asshole. And he probably had a negative effect on my life. And there was probably a lot of people like that, on the path to get here. But I did all right, you know, doing okay.
DB Crema:Can't think of a more perfect way to put it.
Akeem:That's kind of what it's been with my kids because my wife is half black, half white. And my kids are therefore quarter white quarter black and half Arab. I think that when I discuss with them race and such, or not even that, I think when the world interacts with them, I think like the kids in their school and the other parents, I think they look at them not as black at all. Like they don't see that. You know, I don't think... I'm not saying my kids don't see that. I'm saying that the people in the world around them don't see them as being at all black. I'm not sure why, I just don't think that that's the way that they're seen. They're seen as brown. So probably like, you know, me more so than my wife who is you know, she's probably looked at and seen and people think she's black, except for when she was with me, and she's like, there's like no way that you know, you could meet a girl that good looking who had a choice or something like that, so...no, seriously. So they look at my wife and they think she's black. And she's got, you know, a fro, and you know, dark skin. And then they look at me and they're like you're not black, but we don't know what you are. And then they look at my kids and they're like, they're probably more like his kids. So I think that they haven't had it thrust upon them in a way that maybe other kids have. Because I think that people they make that split judgment of how you look. People like to put that you're black, you're white, you're Hispanic. You know, like, what box do you check? What box can I put you into? My kids don't fit in that, right? So...
DB Crema:I mean, so okay, so they're being looked at as people of color. So rather than black and like what you mean by brown.
Akeem:Yeah. It's also strange. I mean, so my wife is half black, half white, but she was raised by her mother who's white. So culturally, she's white. I mean, she's more white. I'm, I'm more black than she is. Not true, but you know what I mean. Like, culturally, it's... there's also not just the visual, but the cultural aspect of it.
DB Crema:Right
Akeem:You know, when I was talking about how my mom has such a weird relationship with race, and it sort of relates to how she dealt with race when we were growing up, was that ...so my parents are from Iraq, originally. My dad's mom is Persian, from Iran. And to some degree, you know, she was darker and, and my mom's family is light. And they always said they're Arab. Your dad's side of the family's Persian. And it's so weird for them to be like, racist against Persians because you can't tell a damn difference, right? And then, this is where it's where the kicker is, so my sister did the 23andme. And guess who's 90% Persian? Me and my sister, which means my mom is a majority Persian. So I said this to her. I was like, does this make you feel different? And she's like, we're not Persian. I was like, Yes, we are. We have a blood test that says that our genes are Persian. No, we're Arab. We're Arab. You know, and she's like, I sunburn. So I thought I had this epiphany when I was like, oh, genetic testing, that's going to change how we all view this, because you're going to have a piece of paper be like, Oh, you're a white dude. Guess what? Someone down the line slept with someone and you got a whole shit ton of Arab blood in you. And now you're going to realize that your concept of race is bullshit. And then I saw what my mom's reaction was? And I was like, Oh, no, that's not gonna happen. Like, that's not how people are going to react, they're gonna be like, nope, science is not correct. I don't care.
DB Crema:But you know, what's funny, too, is listening to this, and I'm like, because it's outside of our socialized norm. It all sounds ridiculous. Like what like, Why? Why is that even an issue? And so we look at it and from from the outside, we're like, well, that's stupid when we do the exact same fucking thing here. To me, asnd I'm guessing 90% of Americans listening to this would think but Persian, Arab, Iraqi, it's all the same.
Akeem:Yeah. Like I can't tell the difference.
DB Crema:Right. Right. So, being Arab in the US is not easy.
Akeem:It's better than being Arab in Iraq. I don't know. That's debatable, I guess, right?
DB Crema:Post 9/11 and such, what was that like?
Akeem:9/11. I was a second year medical student and we had our tests at that point of time, they were trying to prepare us for our, our board exam. So we took all of our tests all at once. So we take nine hours of exam. And so on September 11th, we were taking an exam in the basement of the hospital. I remember one of the other students walking out and coming up to the proctor who was this old dude who's like, you know, these planes flew into this building. He's like, yeah, yeah, whatever, sit down and finish your damn test, right? And he's like, No, I can't do that. I'm getting up and leaving. We're all like looking around. What the hell. And so we finished our test. And everyone sort of worked our way to the student lounge afterwards. And there was, like, 40 or 50 of us. And we're all sitting there watching everything happen. And I remember distinctly students being like, you know, the most racist shit that you can think of and hear coming from med students' mouth. That was also the place where there's people who were driving around looking for people who looked like me to beat up and there was a few Indian dudes, Sikh guys who got beaten up, right. And everyone was always like, well, they don't even got the right people. And I was like, so if they got me instead, would it be okay, because I'm the one that they're looking for. You're just not finding the right person to beat up. But the hardest thing for me is that I think that after September 11th, there was sort of this whole entire, we're all American ganging up against the other, and that included black people. And that hurt. Like that hurt more than white people saying it. Because they were always treated like shit. And I would always commiserate with that and be like, yeah, we're both treated like shit. We're gonna get through it. It's gonna be alright. But it did feel bad when black people would, would be, we're no longer the lowest. Because I was like, You know what, it hurts when someone says something bad about you, but it hurts when someone who knows what it feels like says that about you. I think that growing up Iraqi really made it difficult to feel home in this country. Like I don't really feel like that's... I don't have patriotism towards this country. But it's hard. I mean, this country is responsible for destroying the country my parents are from, you know. Not completely and totally by itself, you know, and that's why I say, Oh, it's better to be an Arab here than it is to be in Iraq. Because Yeah, my my family who lives in Iraq, it's horrible. I mean, there's been people kidnapped, there's been people tortured... cousins, you know. And it's hard to be rah rah for the American military and thank people for their service when they went and helped destroy the place where my family's from. And it's also hard because there is no home anymore. And that's what's happening, I think, to my family now. It's like, they're refugees all over the world. There's no sense of who you're related to who you're not related to. And it, it really strips you of your identity. And when it happens over generations, I think that you're then left without an identity, and you try to form it again. I'm trying to do that with my own kids like to have them not lose that. But I don't know how successful I can be. Because where do you go to visit? Who do you go to see? Whose grandparents grave do you go see when there is not? You know. But it's also hard to feel American per se. But then I go there. And guess what, I'm fucking American. I'm serious. Like, culturally, culturally.
DB Crema:Is there ever... I don't know if I have a question. Do you ever have a space where you feel like you fit in? Or are you feel accepted?
Akeem:Well, there's a few things that I wanted to sort of mention. Most of them have to do with like being a doctor. Because there's been multiple times where I've had patients be like, I don't want you to be my doctor just based off of my name, or what I look like. I've had patients with like blatant, you know, white supremacist tattoos all over them, come into the emergency room and take care of them. And I think the hardest part is I've had like other doctors who said, like, off the wall, like really racist shit. I've had other doctors who refuse to shake my hand. But I've always been proud of, especially with patients of being like, I'm here to treat everyone. Like I remember, one guy coming in. And, you know, I had to cut right through his swastika in order to do a surgery, you know, and I was like, I'm not going to think about this person as being any different. And I've always taken some pride in thinking that it doesn't matter how other people treat you, you got to treat everyone the same. And I want to be known as a doctor who it doesn't matter because there's plenty of people out there who probably do not like me based on what I am. But I don't want that to interfere how I interact with them as taking care of them and, and try to see the humanity and everyone. And that's been helpful in trying to deal with race as I get older is to say, people get to be in desperate positions. And I think my role in this world is to help people and to try to do that, to the best of my ability no matter how they would treat me if the roles were reversed and being okay with that, and actually being proud of that.
DB Crema:Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This podcast was written and produced by me, DB Crema. Thank you to Aly Creative for designing our artwork. And to Nick D and Nick S, for technical support. If you love great storytelling, please subscribe to United States of Race on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also show us some love by rating and writing review on Apple podcasts or PodChaser. And go ahead and share this podcast with your friends and anyone who believes in the power of building connection through sharing personal stories. You can also follow us on Instagram at unitedstatesofrace. And as always, if you Yes, you have a compelling story to share, and would like to be featured in an upcoming episode. Send us a message at unitedstatesofrace@gmail.com Until next time